You’re nobody until somebody hates you

Fiona David was fresh out of university when a supervisor said something she would never forget. 

“[He told] me that you’re nobody until somebody hates you,” she tells Helen McCabe as part of the FW Leadership Series podcast. “I didn’t understand what he said at the time – but about 30 years later, I did.”

Throughout her career, David has been at the forefront of social change. A lawyer and anthropologist by training, she was Chair of Research at the Minderoo Foundation and the first member of Walk Free, an initiative focused on eradicating modern slavery. 

Today, she is the CEO and Founder of Fair Futures – a consultancy helping organisations turn human rights principles into practical action.

In a wide-ranging interview for the Leadership Series, David reflects on how conflict and criticism are often inextricable from change-making. Here are three of our favourite takeaways. 

But, can you measure it? 

When asked about the most valuable feedback she has received, David recalled a piece of advice from Bill Gates.

At the time, she was working closely with mining magnate and philanthropist Andrew ‘Twiggy’ Forrest to help eradicate modern slavery. Forrest had previously met with Gates about this issue. 

“Gates had said words to the effect of, ‘I’m not really sure if this modern slavery thing exists. Because if you can’t measure it, it doesn’t exist’,” David recalled. 

These words led to the development of the landmark Global Slavery Index – a clear way to measure and track modern slavery. David describes Bill Gates’ tweeting about its launch as a moment of professional validation: 

“One of the signs of progress for me is when you can convert somebody and turn them around into somebody who supports what you do.”

Making criticism count 

“Criticism is not the end of the world,” David said. 

“That would be one of my biggest leadership lessons: learning that being criticised can sometimes be a sign of success.”

What is key, however, is knowing what sort of criticism counts. David made a distinction between legitimate criticism and personality-driven rebukes. 

“I think a critical part of leadership that I’ve had to learn is working out [what you should] listen to [and what you should] just let fly over your shoulder to the keeper,” she said. 

Growing pains 

David has become more comfortable navigating conflict. She now views it as an inevitable component of change. 

“Conflict is where the action is,” she said. “It’s where you get to drive change.”

“I’m not necessarily saying conflict is a tactic or a strategy,” she added. 

“But it is where the work is. If you’re interested in telling difficult stories or making social change then it’s going to be at that … front edge of conflict.”